Wednesday, December 26, 2012

Fiscal cliff worries/gold and silver hold/

Good evening Ladies and Gentlemen:

Gold closed up $1.20 to finish the comex session at $1659.80 while silver closed up by 14 cents to $29.98.
The volumes were extremely low as many have not come pack from their Christmas holidays. Not much news to report as Europe was basically closed.  So let us head over to the comex and assess trading today and then we will report on the many articles on the fiscal cliff.  But first.........................................

Let us now head over to the comex and assess trading today.

The total comex gold open interest rose by 105 contracts to rest tonight at 426,300.  Monday's closing level registered 425,250. The active December contract saw it's OI fall 89 contracts from 191 down to 102.  We had 54 notices filed on Monday so we again lost 35 contracts or 3500 oz of gold standing for December. The non active January contract saw it's OI fall 21 contracts down to 1121.  The next big active contract month is February and here the OI fell by 880 contracts from 256,884 down to 256,004.  The estimated volume today was very weak at 48,777.  The confirmed volume on Monday was also weak at 49,625.

The total silver comex OI continues to hover around the 140,000 mark impervious to any price changes.  The total silver comex OI rests tonight at 140,751 a gain of 134 contracts from Monday's level of 140,617.  The  active December contract saw it's OI contract by 101 contracts from 568 down to 467.  We had 96 delivery notices on Monday so we lost 5 contracts or 25000 oz of silver standing in December. The non active January contract saw it's OI fall by 27 contracts from 584 down to 557.  The next big active contract for silver is March and here the OI rose by 92 contracts up to 78,902.  The estimated volume today was an anemic 13,330. The confirmed volume on Monday was also weak at 14,429.

Comex gold figures 

Dec 26.2012    The  December contract month


Withdrawals from Dealers Inventory in oz
Withdrawals from Customer Inventory in oz
Deposits to the Dealer Inventory in oz
Deposits to the Customer Inventory, in oz
3,858.000  (Scotia)
No of oz served (contracts) today
 22 (2,200 oz)
No of oz to be served (notices)
80  (8,000 oz)
Total monthly oz gold served (contracts) so far this month
2978 (297,800  oz)
Total accumulative withdrawal of gold from the Dealers inventory this month
Total accumulative withdrawal of gold from the Customer inventory this month

581456.42  (18.08 tonnes)
Today, we  had tiny activity  inside the gold vaults 

The dealer had no deposits  and no   withdrawals.

We had 1  customer deposit:

i) Into Scotia:  3,858.000 oz  (another of our nicely rounded deposits ending in .000)

total deposit:  3,858.000 oz

we had 0   customer withdrawals:

total customer withdrawal  zero oz

Adjustments: 0

Thus the dealer inventory rests tonight at 2.621 million oz (81.33) tonnes of gold.

The CME reported that we had 22 notices  filed  for 2,200 oz of gold. The total number of notices filed so far this month  thus rises to 2978 notices or 297,800 oz of gold. To obtain what will stand for December, we take the open interest standing for December (102) and subtract out today's notices (22) which leaves us with 80 contracts or 8,000 oz of gold left to be served upon our longs.

Thus the total number of gold ounces standing for delivery in December  is as follows:

297,800 oz (served)  + 8,000 oz (to be served upon)  =  305,800 oz  (9.51 tonnes of gold).

we lost 3,500 oz of gold standing in the December delivery month.


Dec 26.2012:   The December silver contract month

Withdrawals from Dealers Inventorynil
Withdrawals from Customer Inventory  nil
Deposits to the Dealer Inventory nil
Deposits to the Customer Inventory   216,674.80 oz  (JPM, CNT)
No of oz served (contracts)388   (1,940,000 oz)
No of oz to be served (notices)79 (395,000 oz)
Total monthly oz silver served (contracts)3817  (19,085,000 oz)
Total accumulative withdrawal of silver from the Dealers inventory this month4,430,570.9
Total accumulative withdrawal of silver from the Customer inventory this month11,229,085.00

Today, we again had tiny activity  inside the silver vaults.

 we had no dealer deposits and no dealer withdrawals:

We had 2 customer deposits of silver:

i) Into JPM:  211,334.80  oz
ii) Into CNT:  5,340.000  oz  (another perfectly round number of a deposit)

we had 0 customer withdrawals:

total customer withdrawal:  nil  oz

we had 1  adjustments:

Today, we had 577,024.2 oz of silver leave the customer and enter the dealer account at Brinks. 

I have still not received any answer from the CFTC  regarding the round numbered deposits/withdrawals in gold and silver we have been witnessing lately, especially from the CNT vault.  

Registered silver remains today at :  42.70 million oz
total of all silver:  147.096  million oz.

The CME reported that we had 388 notices filed for 1,945,000 oz. 

To determine the number of silver ounces standing for December, I take the OI standing for December  (467) and subtract out today's notices (388) which leaves us with 79 notices left to be filed or 395,000 ounces left to be served upon our longs.
Thus the total number of silver ounces standing in this  active month of December is as follows:

19,085,000 oz (served) + 395,000 (oz to be served upon)  =  19,480,000 oz

we finally lost another 25,000 oz of addition silver  standing for December.


The two ETF's that I follow are the GLD and SLV. You must be very careful in trading these vehicles as these funds do not have any beneficial gold or silver behind them. They probably have only paper claims and when the dust settles, on a collapse, there will be countless class action lawsuits trying to recover your lost investment.
There is now evidence that the GLD and SLV are paper settling on the comex.

Total Gold in Trust   Dec 26.2012  ( at 6 pm)



Value US$72.178 billion.

Dec 24.2012:



Value US$72.180 Billion

we neither gained nor lost any gold ounces into/out of the GLD vaults.

and now for silver:

Dec 26.2012:  (at 6 pm est)

Ounces of Silver in Trust322,981,444.700
Tonnes of Silver in Trust Tonnes of Silver in Trust10,045.85

Dec 24.2012:

Ounces of Silver in Trust322,981,444.700
Tonnes of Silver in Trust Tonnes of Silver in Trust10,045.85

no change in the silver inventory

And now for our premiums to NAV for the funds I follow:  

Sprott and Central Fund of Canada. 

(both of these funds have 100% physical metal behind them and unencumbered and I can vouch for that)

1. Central Fund of Canada: traded to a positive 3.3 percent to NAV in usa funds and a positive 3.4%  to NAV for Cdn funds. ( Dec24 2012)   Canadian holiday. 

2. Sprott silver fund (PSLV): Premium to NAV rose to 1.09% NAV  Dec 26./2012
3. Sprott gold fund (PHYS): premium to NAV  rose to 1.76% positive to NAV Dec 26.2012. 

 Now we witness the Central fund of Canada  gaining big time in its positive to NAV, as we now see CEF at a positive 3.3% in usa and 3.4% in Canadian.This fund is back in premiums to it's former self with respect to premiums per NAV. 

The silver Sprott fund announced a big silver purchase and this reduces the premium to NAV temporarily.  It seems that the bankers are picking on Sprott to short their funds trying to cause an avalanche in selling in the precious metals.  They are foolhardy in their attempt.

It looks like England may have trouble in finding gold and silver for its clients.
It is worth watching the premium for gold at the Sprott funds which is a good indicator of shortage as investors bid up the premiums.



Here are your major physical stories:

Why silver is still the top commodity tip again for 2013
Posted on 26 December 2012

RJ O’Brien & Associates Senior Commodity Broker Phil Streible tells Bloomberg Television why he thinks silver will be the number one commodity pick for 2013. He sees an imminent short coverting rally and then prices will explode…
ArabianMoney thought this was going to happen a year ago and we are still waiting. Perhaps 2013 is the year, nothing much has changed for silver…
video link

Posted on 26 December 2012


Going mainstream?  Pay special attention to the 2 minute video clip on hypothecation and rehypothecation of gold:


From the Silverdoctors web site, we learn that Shanghai is going to raise margins on silver and gold by 13% effective Dec 28th.  Note:  increased volatility in the gold/silver market?


And so it begins.
Those who followed precious metals in 2011 will recall this game plan all too well:
Smash gold and silver prices using unprecedented amounts of naked paper shorts, then announce massive margin hikes (due to increased volatility) to force capitulation among any longs holding out. 
After large take-downs in gold and silver in thin holiday trading last week, the Shanghai Gold Exchange announced today it will raise gold margins to 13% effective Dec 28th.
2013 Silver Eagles As Low as $2.59 Over Spot at SDBullion!

China’s leading gold exchange, The Shanghai Gold Exchange said it will again raise margins and daily price moving limits for its gold contracts.
China’s largest exchange for precious metals attributed this decision on the increased volatility in the precious metal sector.
The exchange will raise margins on gold contracts, including the gold spot deferred contract, to 13 percent from 12 percent from the settlement of Dec. 28.
Limit for daily price movement will rise to 10 percent from 9 percent from Dec. 31, the exchange said in a statement on its website.


Your early morning overnight sentiment from Europe/Asia:

Major points of discussion:

1. The fiscal cliff:  with 4 trading days (if you include Friday) left to resolve the fiscal cliff
fiasco, it looks increasingly unlikely.  Expect to markets on January 2 to suffer badly.

2/ The Christmas shopping season was stated as the slowest growth in spending since 2008.
From preliminary data it looks like retail sales during the Oct 28-Dec 24 shopping season rose only .7% from the year before.

3. Japan saw it's yen plummet as Japan released it's minutes of Noda's last cabinet meeting.
The world is getting quite nervous on Abe's super hyperinflationary model of buying massive government debt.

4. News out of China saw it's current account reach a surplus of 71 billion dollars.
However the capital and financial account saw a huge deficit of 51.7 billion dollars.  No wonder China has not bought any USA bonds in over a year.

(overnight sentiment courtesy of zero hedge)

Unresolved Cliff Drags Back Lethargic Market

Tyler Durden's picture

The market grudgingly comes back to work today, overdosed on caffeine and other alkaloid derivatives, a day when traditionally everyone calls in sick, as absolutely nothing has been resolved over the Fiscal Cliff with just 3 real trading sessions left in the year. And the likelihood that no real trading will take place is very high as both the House and Obama are still out of town, although the latter will take a late night AF-1 trip back to D.C. to rekindle rumors of an imminent 11th hour deal. It is increasingly looking as though the E-bay market, when all real trading take places  at 3:59:59 pm, will manifest itself at the calendar level too, with either a market surge or plunge in what appears to be the last trading day of the year. One can only hope if the news is negative that it has a hard limit like the ES limit down plunge last Thursday.
The overnight newsflow was sparse, although we learned, to little surprise, that despite all the cheerleading by various TV outlets that the holiday retail season was the weakest one in 4 years. As the WSJ reported, "The annual holiday shop-a-thon drew to a muted close for many retailers, according to preliminary data, reflecting what some experts said was the slowest growth in spending since the 2008 recession. For the eight weeks from Oct. 28 through Christmas Eve, retail sales for the holidays rose just 0.7% from the year before,according to MasterCard Inc.'s SpendingPulse unit." So much for all those soaring personal spending and income numbers from last week. Remember: when the government is in doubt how to let the market know that the news is horrible and getting worse, it baffles with seasonally adjusted BS. As it has been for the past 4 years.
Elsewhere, in Japan the BOJ released its latest meeting minutes, which together with the resignation of the Noda cabinet (who is finally no longer watching), has sent the Japanese Yen into freefall, and the USDJPY touching the highest since April of 2011. Apparently 2% inflation targeting in a country in which 2% interest rates will mean all government revenues go to paying down the cash interest on the debt, is a good thing. Of course, all this assumes that Abe will succeed where he bombed so spectacularly last time. Which he won't.
Oh yes, apparently the Netflix service crashed on Christmas Eve (some even noticed it in real life). The firm with the zero barriers to entry and which pays far more for content (starting in 2016) than it can afford, promptly blamed it on Amazon. At least it wasn't Sandy, the Fiscal Cliff, or Bush.
Overnight we also learned that the Chinese Q3 current account surplus was $70.8 billion, even as the capital and financial account posted a deficit of $51.7 billion. Perhaps this explains why China has refused to buy any US government bonds for well over 1 year running.
Today brings us Case-Shiller data, which is expected to come in stronger on a seasonally adjusted Y/Y basis, as the last marginal benefits of the ongoing REO-to-Rent, not to mention the Foreclosure Stuffing strategy employed by all banks to subsidize the low end of the housing market, provides the last benefits to this latest, fourth, round of the housing dead cat bounce. Aside from that it will dead quiet once again with total market volume expected to barely top Monday's year lows.


A picture of the huge drop in the Japanese yen/dollar cross to 85.59:

(courtesy Bloomberg/zero hedge)

JPY Drops To 27-Month Low As Abe Front-Running Continues

Tyler Durden's picture

Slowly but surely, USDJPY has moved back above 85.50 to its highest (weakest JPY) in 27 months as the threat promise of central bank intervention has once again created more front-running. With the market attempting to price in Abe's extravagance, we wonder just how much bang for the buck his 'actions' will create when words are not enough. Will Abe 2.0 be the same as OMT, QE3, and QE4 with the event actually constituting the 'top' or peak impact? Critically though, once Japan actually formalizes what it will do, which will be limited by how much rates can rise on bonds before all government revenue is used to fund cash interest, JPY will spike again, facilitated by the record short-interest (per CoT data). More curious is which Goldman alum will be appointed as the head of the BoJ once Shirakawa's term expires in March. As Bloomberg noted this morning, Japan’s Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said, during a speech in Tokyo this morning, the"next BoJ Governor will be a person who shares Abe’s views."
USDJPY weakest in 27 months...

and the JGB curve is starting to look a little out of control...

Charts: Bloomberg

More troubles for Cyprus as Russian refuses to give this nation any more loans:

(courtesy Bloomberg)

Russia Has No Plans to Give Cyprus Loan on Risk, Storchak Says

Russia has no plans to grant a 5 billion-euro ($6.6 billion) loan requested by Cyprus because the risks are too great to be assumed by a single creditor, Deputy Finance Minister Sergei Storchak said.
“We have no specific plans or instructions to do so,” Storchak said in a Dec. 24 interview in Moscow. “It’s obvious that no single creditor can work with Cyprus alone,” he said. “Anyone who steps up on an individual basis to finance that country’s government or to help recapitalize its banks would be taking an enormous risk.”
Cyprus, whose public debt is forecast to reach 89.7 percent of gross domestic product this year, in late June became the fourth euro-area nation to request a financial rescue since a 2010 bailout of Greece. In addition to seeking aid from its euro-zone partners and the International Monetary Fund, Cyprus asked Russia for a fresh loan after borrowing 2.5 billion euros last year.
A bailout deal with the euro area and IMF will be signed by Feb. 12, Kathimerini reported on Dec. 22, citing Thomas Wieser, who heads the group of officials that prepare meetings of euro- area finance ministers. Cyprus may need as much as 17.5 billion euros, almost the size of its economy, to pay its bills and recapitalize banks, Finance Minister Vassos Shiarly said on Nov. 22.
Russia would consider giving financial assistance to Cyprus as a part of international rescue package after the euro area takes a unified stance on aiding the island, President Vladimir Putinsaid on Dec. 21 in Brussels.

Communist President

“While we don’t exclude taking part, as the president said, we’re not major creditors,” said Storchak, who oversees Russia’s debt and international financial cooperation. If a group of lenders were formed to help Cyprus, it would be based on Cyprus’s membership in the European Union, he said.
Russia’s current loan to Cyprus, which matures in 2016, was intended to help communist Cypriot President Demetris Christofias stabilize his government’s finances. Cypriot lawmaker Stavros Evagorou said on Oct. 13 that the government was seeking to extend the loan.
Bilateral financial lending to foreign states should be treated as a commercial transaction, where the creditor expects to be repaid, Storchak said. More often, countries seeking financial assistance are in need of grants, though politicians are reluctant to say so openly, he said.
Russia will also refrain from lending to Syria, which is mired in a civil war and is unlikely to meet any long-term financial commitments, Storchak said. “Offering loans would be somewhat exaggerating the given borrower’s ability to repay in the current circumstances.”

Civil War

Syrian Deputy Prime Minister Qadri Jamil, who oversees the country’s economic affairs, led a delegation to Russia in August. Syria has asked its Soviet-era ally for financial assistance, though the Finance Ministry isn’t involved in official talks, Storchak said. More than 44,000 people have died in the war since March 2011, according to the U.K.-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.
“Giving this loan would mean closing our eyes to the prospects of those who are in power there now. They have big problems, a civil war,” Storchak said. “In terms of ways we might help, humanitarian aid should be the first priority, while some form of grant would be second.”
Iran, which has been hit by U.S. and EU sanctions, hasn’t sought any Russian financial assistance, Storchak said. “Of course they feel uncomfortable. Isolation takes its toll. Our financial agencies have almost no interaction.”
To contact the reporters on this story: Olga Tanas in Moscow at; Stepan Kravchenko in Moscow at; Scott Rose in Moscow

Your early morning currency crosses: showing a little  USA weakness against major currencies like the Euro .  However the pound  fell badly against the dollar along with the Canadian dollar . The yen also fell against all currencies as the world is waking up to Abe's huge monetization of Japanese debt:

Your early morning currency crosses;

Euro/USA    1.3197 up  .0020
Japan/USA  85.377  up .35
GBP/USA     1.6126 down .0010
USA/Can      .9923  up .0013


your closing 10 year bond yield from Spain:  (Monday's level as Europe is closed)



As of 12:02:14 ET on 12/26/2012.


Your closing Italian 10 year bond yield:  (now safely below 5%)

Italy Govt Bonds 10 Year Gross Yield


As of 12:02:14 ET on 12/26/2012.


Your 3:00 pm currency crosses: (  showing minuscule  USA strength against major currencies
like the Euro on closing. The pound also fell against the dollar , with the Canadian dollar regained a bit from what is lost early in the session against the dollar. The yen fell against all currencies on today as investors are becoming quite worried about the antics of their new prime minister Abe.
Euro/USA    1.3219 up  .0043
Japan/USA  85.59  up .59
GBP/USA     1.6122 down .0013
USA/Can      .9909  up .0030


Your closing figures from Europe and the USA:

  ( England and Germany closed , France and the USA in the red, Spain in the green.)

i) England/FTSE  closed

ii) Paris/CAC  down 8.79 or  .24% 

iii) German DAX: closed

iv) Spanish ibex: up 8.50 up .10%

and the Dow: down 21 points  (.39%)


And now for major USA stories:

The grand bargain that everybody is waiting for shrinks as the deadline approaches:

(courtesy Bloomberg)

Grand Bargain Shrinks as Congress Nears U.S. Budget Deadline

The deal that seems possible to fix the U.S. budget is getting smaller and smaller.
House Speaker John Boehner, a Republican from Ohio, listens to a question during a news conference in Washington, D.C. Photographer: Andrew Harrer/Bloomberg
Dec. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Michelle Meyer, a senior economist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch, talks about the outlook for the U.S. economy and housing market. Meyer speaks with Sara Eisen and Alix Steel on Bloomberg Television's "Surveillance." Richard Falkenrath, a principal at the Chertoff Group and a Bloomberg Television contributing editor, also speaks. (Source: Bloomberg)
Dec. 26 (Bloomberg) -- John Manley, chief equity strategist at Wells Fargo Advantage Funds, talks about U.S. budget talks, the equity market and investment strategy. Manley speaks with Sara Eisen and Alix Steel on Bloomberg Television's "Surveillance." Richard Falkenrath, a principal at the Chertoff Group and Bloomberg contributor, also speaks. (Source: Bloomberg)
Five days before a deadline that would trigger more than $600 billion in tax increases and spending cuts that could cause a U.S. recession, Congress will return Dec. 27 amid calls for action in the Senate.
The politics of progress there are easier than in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, which balked last week at Speaker John Boehner’s plan for tax increases on income above $1 million. Still, the House would have to sign off next. Boehner and President Barack Obama have been unable to agree on the tax-rate increase on top earners Obama wants or the cuts to entitlement programs that Boehner sought, complicating the chances of getting a package done.
“At this point, all they’re looking for is a fig leaf,” said Stan Collender, a former staff member of the House Ways and Means Committee and the House and Senate Budget committees who is now at Qorvis Communications inWashington. “There’s no grand bargain. There never was.”
The Senate is run by Democrats, and some Republican members, including Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas, have said that they would favor a small deal on parts of what the president has sought to avoid raising taxes on the middle class.
The trouble is that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, need to come up with something that also can get through the House, which has balked at any tax increases. Senate Republicans don’t want to be on the record supporting higher taxes unless they know the House also would pass it.

Still a Chance

“There’s still a chance for them to get a deal,” said Ron Bonjean, a Republican strategist who formerly served as a spokesman for House Speaker Dennis Hastert and Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott. “It grows more unlikely by the day, and there’s not a lot of days left.”
Obama plans to leave for Washington today from his Christmas vacation in Hawaii, while his family will stay behind, the White House said yesterday. Lawmakers plan to return tomorrow, the same day Obama will arrive in Washington.
Bonjean put the probability of no deal at 75 percent. Still, he said there’s a chance for one because the president and Republican leaders want to avoid the “fiscal cliff” -- a term coined by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke in testimony before the House Financial Services Committee in February. Tax cuts signed into law by President George W. Bush and extended by Obama are scheduled to expire Jan. 1, and automatic spending cuts are scheduled to start next month, creating the so-called cliff.

Stocks, Bonds

Standard & Poor’s 500 Index futures expiring in March increased 0.2 percent to 1,422.1 at 6:42 a.m. in New YorkDow Jones Industrial Average futures gained 15 points, or 0.1 percent, to 13,080, at 6:10 a.m. in New York. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury bond was 1.78 percent at 7:02 a.m. in New York, little changed from Dec. 24, according to Bloomberg Bond Trader prices.
U.S. equity markets were closed for the Christmas holiday yesterday. The S&P 500 dropped 0.2 percent on Dec. 24 amid concern policy makers will fail to strike a compromise.
Before going on vacation with his family, Obama urged leaders of both parties to put together an interim bill to keep taxes from rising on middle-income Americans as they work on a more comprehensive package.
On Christmas day, Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama greeted troops and their families having dinner at Marine Corps Base Hawaii in Kaneohe Bay. The president thanked the families for their sacrifices.

Assurance Needed

Senate Democratic leaders have said they won’t take action on a fallback plan unless they have assurances from Boehner that he will bring it up in the House and let it pass with a combination of Democratic and Republican votes, and from McConnell that Senate Republicans won’t filibuster it.
“A comprehensive solution to the looming fiscal cliff will need to be a bipartisan solution,” Reid said on the chamber’s floor Dec. 21. “No comprehensive agreement can pass either chamber without both Democrats and Republican votes.”
Senator Charles Schumer of New York, the chamber’s third- ranking Democrat, told reporters Dec. 21 that “the key to this is the House.” McConnell wouldn’t “want to have his members put their necks on the line for a deal that may not pass the House,” he said.
Schumer and Reid called on Boehner to resume talks with Obama. Failing to reach a budget deal would push the U.S. into recession for the first half of 2013, according to the nonpartisanCongressional Budget Office.

No Deal

“At this point there’s zero percent chance of a big deal and maybe a 10 percent chance of a small deal before Jan. 1,” Collender said. He has predicted a no-deal scenario since before Memorial Day, and said the past two weeks of inaction reinforced his projection.
At this point, Collender said, whether the Senate moves first won’t matter.
“Nothing will move House Republicans if they don’t feel like getting moved,” he said. “They’ve never been swayed by the Senate before.”
The remaining option for averting the cliff, he said, would be if Boehner risks his House speakership to put to the floor a tax deal that would get a majority of Democrats to support it and few -- perhaps less than 50 -- Republicans.
“The Republican caucus would never forgive him,” he said. “The statesmanlike thing to do would be to say I’m the speaker of the House, not the head of the Republican party. That is the equivalent of never running for speaker again.”

Speaker Vote

Boehner was selected by his conference as the Republican nominee for House speaker. He needs an absolute majority of those present and voting on Jan. 3 -- 217 votes -- to be re- elected. Republicans will hold 234 seats to begin the 113th Congress in January. Once re-elected, Boehner will have more freedom to cut a deal, Collender said.
Until Dec. 17, Obama and Boehner had been edging closer to a deal that included $1 trillion each in tax increases and spending cuts. Boehner had put tax-rate increases on the table for income above $1 million a year, infuriating some lawmakers backed by anti-tax Tea Party groups.
That was the proposal he pulled from the House floor on Dec. 20 rather than see it defeated by his own caucus members.
It’s still possible to reach an agreement before the deadline. Both Obama and Boehner have offered concessions in talks, in person and by telephone, since Dec. 5.

Initial Parries

The president initially sought $1.6 trillion in new revenue, including a return to pre-Bush income tax rates for annual household income over $250,000 a year. The speaker first rejected any increase in tax rates, instead offering $800 billion in revenue by limiting unspecified exemptions.
After Boehner proposed raising taxes for households earning more than $1 million a year, Obama countered with a proposal to raise taxes on more than $400,000 of income.
Obama also has agreed to accept cuts in entitlement spending on programs such as Medicare, while Boehner has maintained that new taxes and spending cuts must be balanced on a one-to-one basis.
In sum, the two have approached the outlines of a plan that would raise about $1 trillion in tax revenue and cut about $1 trillion in spending.
Republicans are “not going to get what we think is right” because they don’t control the government and will need to compromise to avoid the cliff, Hutchison said Dec. 24 on MSNBC.
Everyone is “going back to the drawing board,” the Texas senator said. “It’s going to take everyone” to reach a deal.
To contact the reporter on this story: Derek Wallbank in Washington
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Cesca Antonelli at


GOP Issues Latest Statement On Fiscal Cliff

Tyler Durden's picture

Spoiler alert: no compromise here. But at least there are 3 more trading days left... including December 31.
From the website of the Speaker.
GOP Leaders on Fiscal Cliff: Senate First Must Act

House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA), Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-CA), and Republican Conference Chair Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA) today issued the following joint statement regarding the fiscal cliff:

"The House has acted on two bills which collectively would avert the entire fiscal cliff if enacted.  Those bills await action by the Senate.  If the Senate will not approve and send them to the president to be signed into law in their current form, they must be amended and returned to the House.  Once this has occurred, the House will then consider whether to accept the bills as amended, or to send them back to the Senate with additional amendments.  The House will take this action on whatever the Senate can pass, but the Senate first must act.  The lines of communication remain open, and we will continue to work with our colleagues to avert the largest tax hike in American history, and to address the underlying problem, which is spending."

another way of looking at the above:

16:17 House will not act on fiscal cliff until Senate does - Bloomberg, citing House leaders
Headlines only.
The Hill reported earlier today that attention has shifted to the Senate following the failure of Boehner's "plan B" last week. Citing a Boehner spokesman, the article notes the House will "take a look at whatever Senate Democrats produce".
The Hill also reported that House Republicans continued to meet via conference call on Wednesday as the deadline for a deal looms large. * * * * *


Further trouble ahead with the USA ports as employers are threatening a lockout to get what they want:

(courtesy Marc to Market)

What's Up Dock?

Marc To Market's picture

Labor disputes at ports on both US coasts could disrupt trade in the new year and skew high frequency employment data.  In could produce shortages of some consumer goods.  The resulting higher prices could filter through into measured inflation.  
The proximate cause of the disputes differ, but at its heart is a push by the employers to boost competitiveness through forcing changes in labor practices.

In 15 ports from Massachusetts to Texas, including the New York and New Jersey, the employers' union association, the U.S. Marine Alliance, seeks to cap the "container royalty", which are payments made to workers based on the weight of container cargo.  The dock workers, represented by the International Longshoreman Association, are resisting.  The workers also insist on maintaining the eight-hour a day (of pay guarantee).  
The union represents 14,500 works at the 15 ports, the NY-NJ, accounting for 4,000.  Last year, NY-NY handled $208 bln worth of goods.  It is the second largest port in the country to household imports from China.  Overall, it handles 10% of imports from China, almost 70% of imports from Israel, and 37% of imports from Italy.  Forty percent of the imported autos come through the NY-NJ docks.  
Following the breakdown in negotiations, and with the December 30th deadline looming, both sides have agreed to mediation.  The situation in the four northwest ports does not look as promising.  The 3,000 dock workers, represented by the International Longshore and Warehouse Union, rejected the contract proposals of the employers, which indicated it was their "last, best and final" offer.
The ports cover two-thirds of the US grain terminals in the Puget Sound and along the Columbia River and account for a quarter of all US grain exports and half of the wheat exports.   Reports suggest the employers have sought over 750 changes in the contracts, in some cases, upending 80 years of practice.  However, most of the issues come down to control of the workplace.  The shippers want to use few workers to (un)load ships, allow elevator workers to assist in the loading of ships, and greater management discretion on hiring and staffing issues.  
The shippers and owners of the grain terminals are represented by the Pacific Northwest Grain Handlers Union Association, seem particularly aggressive.  The union has not asked for authorization to strike.  It has not set a strike deadline.  It has not threatened a walk out.  Nevertheless, there are reports that the shippers are considering locking out the union employees and keeping the ports open with replacement workers.  A Delaware company, specializing in providing security and replacement workers during labor disputes (shades of the Pinkertons) has been hired.

A capital strike is when investors withdraw from the productive process and squeeze interest rates highers in hope of driving the debtor to change its behavior.  A labor strike is when employees withdraw from the productive process, disrupting the ability to complete the circulation of capital from investment to profits.

A lockout is not a strike. It when employers force employees out of the productive process until they capitulate to the employers' demands.  Through the employers' union, association, they have a monopoly on the supply of jobs for longshoremen.

By preparing to establish buffer zones to prevent the labor dispute from interfering with the port activity, the US Coast Guard, and by extension, the US government abandons the honest broker role to favor the employers.   It compliments the use of replacement workers and seeks to minimize the ability of the labor dispute to interrupt business.

The employers seek a type of pattern bargaining.  After a protracted struggle, the union had capitulated to new workplace rules at a new grain terminal in Washington in 2011.   The employers want all the dock workers to adhere to those new rules.  Deeper still, shippers are facing competition from rail.  For a number of different reasons, using rail roads to bring grains to the ports may be less expensive than barges


Mark Grant comments on the abyss we face with the looming fiscal cliff.

(courtesy Mark Grant/zero hedge)

"It Is Indeed, A Fearful Place"

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From Mark Grant, author of Out of the Box
It Is Indeed, A Fearful Place

“It is indeed, a fearful place. The torrent, swollen by the melting snow, plunges into a tremendous abyss, from which the spray rolls up like the smoke from a burning house. The shaft into which the river hurls itself is an immense chasm, lined by glistening coal-black rock, and narrowing into a creaming, boiling pit of incalculable depth, which brims over and shoots the stream onward over its jagged lip. The long sweep of green water roaring forever down, and the thick flickering curtain of spray hissing forever upward, turn a man giddy with their constant whirl and clamor. We stood near the edge peering down at the gleam of the breaking water far below us against the black rocks, and listening to the half-human shout which came booming up with the spray out of the abyss.”

                  -Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The Final Problem
Here are words worthy of describing our present abyss. Here is a verbally painted picture of a terrifying falls where Holmes and Moriarty grasped and struggled and eventually plunged to an almost certain death. So this morning I invite you to sniff the sea air. I beckon you to wipe your eyes and clear them and take note of our current surroundings because we are standing at the rather infamous Reichenbach Falls and we are struggling with our almost certain fate as we attempt to keep ourselves upright before the plunge into the whirl of some fiscally boiling pit. 
"I think that you know me well enough, Watson, to understand that I am by no means a nervous man. At the same time, it is stupidity rather than courage to refuse to recognize danger when it is close upon you."

                  -Sherlock Holmes
We have gamed ourselves for too long and dined upon hopes and prayers and morsels of central bank expectations that have been tossed to us by the sirens that constantly and consistently surround the markets. I fear we have listened to their haunting calls and now, with some great degree of certainty in my mind, it will not just be a fiscal cliff but an intertwined market cliff from which we are about to plunge headlong over the side and down into the raging sea. The last rocky ledge is beneath our feet but the rock crumbles and the footing is slippery and the minions of both our President and our Congress are pushing mightily on our backs with the strength of the Herculean battle for the treasure of the nation. It is clear that some made the money and some did not but now everyone is clamoring for the keys to the vault and everyone feels entitled to the spoils. It is Denmark no longer but something rotten in the United States and beware the tidings of a new year!

The sales numbers for the Christmas season were dismal. The Associated Press reports that holiday sales increased 0.7% and were the worst since 2008. S&P and Moodys are cutting corporate debt ratings the most since 2009 as the ratio of downgrades to upgrades increased to 1.85%  from 1.23% in 2011. Sovereign debt ratings are getting hammered globally as Europe careens into another recession, as China falters and as the United States is about to be swept into the rampage of a failed economic policy. Increase taxes, do not increase taxes it is but the while of a moment, the propaganda of eight days of financing the government as  entitlements and social programs that cannot be afforded are not yet even a serious part of the national discussion. The subjects currently being bandied about are like droplets of water while the raging falls are ignored and the hours left are trivialized as we plunge headlong into midnight of December 31. Obama care, increased payroll taxes, increased personal taxes, increased entitlement programs, the debt ceiling and a nation living off the largesse of the Federal Reserve Bank printing paper from thin air as we prepare to join Alice in the great fall down the rabbit hole.

“It had darkened since I left, and now I could only see here and there the glistening of moisture upon the black walls, and far away down at the end of the shaft the gleam of the broken water. I shouted; but only the same half-human cry of the fall was borne back to my ears.”

                      -Doctor Watson
Still the slosh of new money is there. The compression in the bond markets will continue for a time. America will join Europe in her recession and the Continent will be buoyed by the sharing of the misery. It will certainly not be the best of times and most probably not the worst of times but it will be a time that is not marked by much joy or good fortune either. I predict that anger will swell, that people will feel betrayed and that the social conscience of the nation will be frayed by what has been promised and cannot be delivered. The spirit of the season may well call; “Rest Ye Merry Gentleman” but it will neither be “rest” nor “merry” as the New Year begins.



As zero hedge correctly states:  the true deadline is sometime in March when all debt ceiling extensions  have run out.

(courtesy zero hedge)

Geithner - US To Hit Debt Ceiling On December 31

Tyler Durden's picture

Just because the Fiscal Cliff was not enough...
So since America's dysfunctional congress failed to "rise above" the Fiscal Cliff, it at least succeeded to "rise above" the debt ceiling. One out of two is not too bad...
To summarize: debt ceiling hit December 31, just in time for the no deal on the Fiscal Cliff, and then the Treasury will proceed to defund various Government retirement accounts for the next two and a half months, when sometime in March the true deadline to getting a joint solution on both the Cliff and the Debt Ceiling will becoming unextendable as the alternative is truly unthinkable: living within its means!
In other words, as we have said all along, the real deadline for a Fiscal Cliff is not December 31, but that day in March when all further debt ceiling extension avenues are exhausted.
The question therefore is - will the 2 months of America living under self-made austerity be enough to push it into recession.
* * *
And now cue flashbacks to August 2011

The Debt to the Penny and Who Holds It

CurrentDebt Held by the PublicIntragovernmental HoldingsTotal Public Debt Outstanding
See information on the Debt Subject to the Limit.


A wonderful article by Charles Hugh Smith on the "real cliff" we are facing:

(courtesy Charles Hugh Smith

Guest Post: More Cliffs Than Fiscal

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Via Charles Hugh-Smith of OfTwoMinds blog,
The fiscal cliff is not the only cliff we're racing toward; there are others.
The fiscal cliff dominates the mainstream news, but it is more like a bump on the pathway to the real cliff. In essence, the path has turned down and we're picking up momentum, gaining speed as we head for the cliff.
The real cliff is the gap between what has been promised and what can plausibly be collected in tax revenues: $86 trillion but one recent estimate, over $120 trillion by other guestimates. The difference is caused by the relative rosiness of the projections to control Medicare and Medicaid spending. Lower estimates assume we can stop the growth of these programs in the long-term, something that has not yet happened for the reason that the system lacks any controls to do so.
This gap widens by $7 trillion a year. That is, the promises to present and future retirees and beneficiaries goes up if we count the promises made not just for 2013 but for the future.
This $7 trillion is twice the entire Federal budget and roughly 50% of the nation's GDP. 
Understood in this way, we can see that raising taxes by $200 billion or cutting expenditures by $200 billion is not going to keep us from hurtling off the real fiscal cliff in a few years.
The fiscal cliff is only one edge we're racing toward; there are others. One is a Constitutional Crisis cliff that is just beyond the fiscal cliff, because the Constitution has failed to limit the power of concentrated wealth (the financial Aristocracy) and failed to resolve the Tyranny of the Majority: 50+% of the voters are now dependent on Federal transfers, while 25% pay 90% of the Federal income taxes. Those collecting benefits will naturally vote for what they perceive as their immediate self-interest, which is raising taxes on the minority until the minority rebels.
The only other option is to print the needed $100 trillion, which will destroy the nation's currency and economy. Either way, the 50+% will find the promises made are empty. Either the oppressed 25% opt out ("when belief in the system fades") and tax revenues collapse or everyone's $1,500 transfer from the Federal government will buy a single loaf of bread. Either way, we will face a political crisis.
We have been trained to ridicule any suggestions that technology won't/can't save us, but the one undeniable truth about technology is that it destroys 90% of the jobs in the industries it revolutionizes. Agriculture, for example. Music stores. Travel agencies. Some other employment sectors are only cut in half, for example admin assistants. The range of job losses triggered by advances in technology is between 98% and 50%, depending on the rigidity and inefficiency of the industry being transformed.
For forty years we have counterbalanced this loss of employment by borrowing and spending money on labor-intensive consumption: more healthcare, more retail, more tourism / hospitality, more government. But even these sectors are starting to come under technological pressure, despite the political moats that have been dug around healthcare, education, defense, housing, etc.
The pressure is not just technological, it is financial: the game of borrowing ever-more money to fund all this labor-intensive consumption is almost over. Right now we have a structural deficit of $1.3 trillion, and simply keeping it at this level will require politically impossible limits on the growth of government spending. Meanwhile, tax revenues have topped out. As tax rates go up, people change their behavior to pay less taxes. As a result, tax increases always raise far less money than static, linear projections estimate.
Many claims for technological revolutions are overblown and unrealistic. High school physics, chemistry and biology, bolstered by an interest in keeping up with scientific advances (via mainstream science magazines such as Scientific American), is more than enough to analyze claims of "scientific revolution" with a grounded skepticism. To take but one example: all those stories about nano-robots being introduced into our bloodstream to chomp away at our clogged arteries. What will fuel these little machines? Some recent work suggests they can use glucose as a fuel, but even this ignores the reality that the clogged arteries are a symptom/result of lifestyle choices, not the cause per se of heart disease. In one field after another, horrendously costly "cures" are actually being directed at symptoms, not causes.
With even a modest foundation of scientific understanding, many of the claims for "revolutionary" technological advances founder on basic limits of the real world or the cost and difficulty of scaling up a technology to the point that it is both affordable and broadly applicable.
I recently saw an article hyping an advance that could eliminate batteries in pacemakers--the aforementioned glucose-fueled electronics. But given that perhaps 1% of the global populace can afford a pacemaker, how "revolutionary" is this advance? It seems extremely marginal compared to indoor plumbing, clean water, eliminating malaria, etc.
What technology reliably accomplishes is a wholesale reduction of human labor and jobs.  What it no longer does is create new labor-intensive industries. 
We thus face an inequality cliff that is (unsurprisingly) connected to the fiscal and constitutional cliffs: how do we transfer wealth from the productively employed few to the many unemployed/ under-employed without creating a society of dependents? We have "fixed" this problem by borrowing or printing trillions of dollars. That "solution" has now entered the marginal-return death spiral.
We will have to come up with a new social contract built on community rather than a debt-dependent Central State and its cartel/fiefdom partners. Hoping that technology will solve that knotty problem for us is delusional, as technology only further reduces human employment.
This essay was drawn from Musings Report 49. The Musings are sent weekly to subscribers and major financial contributors (those who contribute $50 or more annually).


Greg Hunter writes a great commentary on the problems within the USA:

(courtesy Greg Hunter/USAWatchdog)

Bagmen Not Statesmen

11By Greg Hunter’s 
What has been going on in Washington, D.C., since the financial meltdown of 2008 has been a disaster for the country.  Taxpayers bailed out crooked, incompetent bankers while tens of millions lost their homes and jobs.  The bailouts have cost trillions of dollars, and they’re not finished.  The Federal Reserve has set a key interest rate to near zero percent until 2015, and it is printing $85 billion a month to prop up the banks and our own government.  The Fed calls this little operation “open-ended.”  No one has gone to jail for causing this enormous hardship on ordinary Americans, and not a word is spoken in the halls of Congress about stopping the bailouts or bringing criminals to justice.  This is immoral, disgusting, repugnant, nonexistent leadership. 
This could have been handled in 2008 with the debt wiped clean.  We should have only protected depositors.  Bankers, bondholders and shareholders be damned—that’s capitalism.  It would have cost about $6 trillion back then, and we’d be on our way to a real recovery by now.  That is exactly what Iceland did.  It told bankers, shareholders and bondholders to take a big hit instead of giving a bailout for incompetence and fraud.  Oh, and it prosecuted the bankers and government officials that allowed the implosion to happen!  (Click here for more on Iceland’s turnaround.)  Instead, the Federal Reserve alone pumped out $16 trillion in the wake of the 2008 meltdown.  That is only part of the banker bailout that is still going on to the tune of $40 billion a month.  Not a single financial elite has been prosecuted and put behind bars for obvious crime and fraud—not one!  
Meanwhile, the dog and pony show called the “fiscal-cliff” is playing out like a gigantic blame game.  All we have to hear is the splat for the finger pointing to kick into high gear.  Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame for not standing up and making the hard choices to put the country on firm financial footing.  They may act stupid, but I believe they know full well what’s going on.  Renowned gold expert, Jim Sinclair, has a saying for things like this, “It’s too stupid to be stupid.”   Meaning, it’s intentional.   
Our own elected leaders turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to fraud and crime year after year.  The government also allows the banks to value assets at whatever they think they will be worth in the future.  This government sanctioned accounting fraud has been allowed since April of 2009.  Meaning, the Fed can’t print money fast enough to fix the gigantic mess.  Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve continues buying $40 billion a month in “toxic” mortgage debt created by the bankers.  This stuff was supposed to be “Triple A” rated debt, equal to the “risk free return” of Treasury bonds.  Imagine the government selling you Treasury bonds and later tell you they are “toxic.”  Wouldn’t that be outright fraud?  You bet it would, and yet not a word from our leaders about the Fed buying this junk at a rate of $40 billion a month to infinity.  JP Morgan Chase just paid nearly $300 million in fines to settle fraud charges brought by the SEC.  JP Morgan paid a $150 billion fine last year for the same thing.  Other big banks are also guilty of fraud in the mortgage arena.  Why isn’t Congress holding hearings?  Why isn’t the Justice Department handing out indictments?  Oh, we did get a deal on the“robo-signing” fiasco that let bankers off the hook for foreclosure fraud and perjury.  Thanks, Congress, for letting your campaign donors, I mean bankers, slide again.  
The LIBOR (London Inter-Bank Offered Rate) rate rigging scandal is another enormous fraud on a global scale.  LIBOR sets rates for as much as $800 trillion in transactions worldwide.    More than a dozen big banks are involved in rigging this rate, and what are they getting for punishment?  Most recently, UBS was hit with a $1.5 billion fine.  Why aren’t there indictments and Congressional hearings to get to the bottom of this rip-off?  
How about money laundering for Mexican drug cartels and terror groups that HSBC recently admitted to doing over several years?  Where’s the outrage?  How about some criminal charges?  Why isn’t Congress pressing the Obama Administration for answers just like the “Fast and Furious” gun running scandal?  Isn’t laundering billions of dollars for drug cartels and terrorists worthy of a little attention by our government?  HSBC CEO Stuart Gulliver did admit to “stunning failures” and said, “We have said we are profoundly sorry for them, and we do so again.”  (Click here for the complete story from Reuters.)  The CEO is“profoundly sorry”?  How about profoundly guilty of crime against this country!! 
Let’s go back to the so-called “Fiscal Cliff.”  Everybody in Congress knows what the real story is.  The U.S. takes in a little more than $2 trillion in taxes, and it spends a little more than $3 trillion.  The real deficit for last year alone was $7 trillion (if you count everything) according to John Williams of  I am talking about the same accounting the government requires of business called GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles).  Fixing this mess means we will have to spend a lot less and, yes, taxes will have to go up.  This will be very painful for everybody, and I mean everybody.  The rich, the poor, the young and old will have to suffer to fix this mess.  It will take years, and we will not just “grow” our way out of this one.  We’ve been told the “growth” lie for years, and the only thing that has grown is the debt and deficit of the U.S.  If we don’t fix this mess, then that pain I’m telling you about is going to be much worse, and our very country will be at great risk. 
There’s not a word about the real financial problems of the country with the “Fiscal Cliff” negotiations from either party. As Mr. Sinclair says, “This is too stupid to be stupid.”  I say, in Washington, D.C., we have bagmen, not statesmen.  For this, the country will pay dearly.         


It takes a Canadian politician to state why the USA is in such a mess:

(courtesy zero hedge)

A Canadian Summarizes America's Collapse: "Everyone Takes, Nobody Makes, Money Is Free, And Money Is Worthless"

Tyler Durden's picture

On this lackluster Boxing Day dominated by illiquid moves in every asset class, we thought a few succinct minutes spent comprehending the US and European government policies of social welfare and their outcomes was time well spent. Canadian MP Pierre Poilievre delivers a rather epic speech destroying the myths of US and European 'wealth' noting that "Once the US citizen is in debt, the US government encourages them to stay in debt," noting that "the US government encouraged millions of Americans to spend money they did not have on homes they could not afford using loans they could never repay and then gave them a tax incentive never to repay it." His message, delivered seamlessly, notes the inordinate rise in the cost of all this borrowing, adding that "through debt interest alone, soon the US taxpayer will be funding 100% of the Chinese Military complex." From Dependence to Debt to the Welfare State and back to Dependence, this presentation puts incredible context on the false hope so many believe in the US and Europe. Must watch.

"By 2020, the US Government will be spending more annually on debt interest than the total combined military budgets of China, Britain, France, Russia, Japan, Germany, Saudi Arabia, India, Italy, South Korea, Brazil, Canada, Australia, Spain, Turkey, and Israel."

"Through government spending the indulgence of one is the burden of another; through government borrowing, the excess of one generation becomes the yoke of the next; through international bailouts, one nation's extravagance becomes another nation's debt"

"Everyone takes, nobody makes, work doesn't pay, indulgence doesn't cost, money is free, and money is worthless."


Anonymous said...

Thank you Harvey.

Anonymous said...

At this very moment the spot price for silver is $ 29.97 per ounce yet physical silver eagles are selling across the board for $ 40.00 per ounce on ebay.
Could this be the first sign of the physical silver seceding from the make believe paper/derivative/etf silver ?

Fred said...

to anon @ 9:43--

How many silver eagles would you like to buy at $34???

I'll let you make the big money selling them on ebay.

I've got 25,000 pcs available.

Anonymous said...

Fred, would you please take a picture for ppl. on Harvey's blog to see your 25000 silver eagle coins ?

I would believe that there are a number here who would be interested in seeing what you have avail. for sale. How many opportunities out there do you think that there are with 25,000 s.e. coins avail. for sale ? ...and don't say the U.S. gov- we already know that they're out of them...

Anonymous said...

Fred's just a kid trying to get some attention here!

Anonymous said...


Even YOU wouldn't be STOOOOPID enough to sell 25,000 eagles on Ebay for $34. People who have 25,000+ eagles, don't have them to sell at this price...

THEREFORE, those claiming a shortage are correct!

Seriously....did you find your soul yet? You can't be a lying criminal all your life...


Anonymous said...

Shimbob, if you can't find a seller willing to sell you all of the Silver Eagle that you want at $34.00 each then you have no real experience buying bulk silver. Without a doubt I know taht I can contact several sellers on Ebay that would be very happy to sell at $34.00 each - in quantities as low as 100 - you just won't buy them through Ebay, you would buy direct from the seller. I deal with a lot of Ebay sellers, I just dont buy through Ebay. Anyone that does buy in bulk and pays Ebay/PayPal the extra 13.9 percent is a fool. In short if you want BU Silver Eagles at $34.00 you can get them.

Anonymous said...

and why the "soul" comments continueously directed at Fred by you? I don't believe his soul has a thing to do with the silver he owns or the paper he trades. And the Anin that is stating that Silver Eagles are selling "across the board at $40.00 on Ebay" is full of it. I just popped on Ebay and one of the first sellers I seen has 100 Silver Eagles at $3495.00 WITH FREE SHIPPING.

Anonymous said...

Currently on Ebay (and not sold yet by the way)

Five BU Rolls of 2012 American Silver Eagles .999 Silver 100 Troy Ounces Item: 390512510331 $3492.00 (and the seller is paying 13.9 percent in seller fees PLUS he is paying for shipping as well.)

5 Rolls-100 Oz 2012 1 Oz Silver American Eagles Brilliant Uncirculated Item: 130713682097 $3485.00 (and the seller is paying 13.9 percent in seller fees PLUS he is paying for shipping as well.

5 Rolls-100 Oz 2013 1 Oz Silver American Eagle $1 *PRESALE* ORDER NOW! Item: 140898447388


$3499.00 (and the seller is paying 13.9 percent in seller fees PLUS he is paying for shipping as well.

there you go Shimbob. Simply contact these sellers and oay them directly and I can gurantee one or all will sell to you at $3400

Anonymous said...

you can buy silver maple leafs from almost any bullion exchange in canada for $33.75 or a monster box of 500 oz for $33.52 per oz.


Anonymous said...

anon 9:43p & 4:38a back again...

ok there are "bulk" prices out there for discount , right now . BUT study all of the individual sales and purchases going on presently when all said & done for 40 bucks per ounce.
Add all those little ones up and it's a sure thing that they will far outnumber the bulk sales and purchases by a mile.
And that's just the beginning of what will assuredly help to bring the paper bullshit world of gold and silver to it's knees ~ hopefully soon enough.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully Harvey will incorporate the blog piece "The 3 Legs of the Precious Metals Bull" - by Jeff Nielson into his Thursday forum....really good information on how the central banks are screwing all of us.

Anonymous said...

To moron, err I eman Anon 1:15.

Hey dipshit here are the real numbers" If you sell a Silver Eagle on Ebay on a 'buy now' listing for $40 the seller payes Ebay $4.90, he pays paypal $1.46 PLUS SHIPPING PLUS PACKAGING, PLUS A LABEL, PLUS INCK TO PRINT The LABEL which I will conservatively add $3.00 (NOT COUNTING SHIPPING INSURANCE UNLESS THEY WANT TO GAMBLE THAT IT GETS LOST)

Now, From your $40.00 sale deduct fees and shipping which total $9.36 which the seller nets a whopping $30.64. hell, forget the shipping and credit that amount back to the net and the average seller is still only netting $33.00

There goes your $40.00 down to $33.00 to $34 AT THE VERY BEST!

and those are the REAL numbers jack!

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